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Hey All (I've already posted this in BBD, but I figure I'll place it here as well to get hopefully as much discussion on this as possible :)
In the past two months, I've heard disparaging comments towards hip hop dance from well known dancers, dancers in my area and dancer posts on tribe. Most of them frame hip hop dance as highly sexual, as lacking moral boundaries and as degrading towards women. However, I've noticed that most of these people (ok, all of them :) are Caucasian. They seem to do it in order to say 'well, people might see bellydance's bedlah as sexual but at least we're not as sexual as all that booty-shaking in hip hop dance.' or to say 'why will parents send their kids to hip hop over bellydance considering how overtly sexual hip hop is.' One poster did call hip hop all that 'booty-shaking.' But, hello, the three-quarter shimmy is all about 'booty-shaking.' When I've pressed the people I know to name hip hop videos where they've seen overtly sexual dancing (or any at all) they usually come up blank and I have to point out that Eve, Usher, Queen Latifa, Lil Mama, Black-Eyed Peas, etc. all belong to the hip hop genre, and the videos they produce are far from derogatory. In fact, I always try to emphasize that hip hop dance is an art form, and just like bellydance it can be misappropriated. I'll also point out that the videos they hear about are from male hip hop artists whose videos only appear 'after hours' and are mainly created to titillate or for sensational purposes. However, it upsets me that dancers who speak out against society's denigrating construction of bellydance as overtly sexual, have to put down another dance form to make themselves seem 'normal' and 'better'. It also concerns me as it covertly reminds me of 19th century mindsets that frame the movements of certain cultures as salacious, rather than looking at who is using them. Has anyone else come across this?
In the past two months, I've heard disparaging comments towards hip hop dance from well known dancers, dancers in my area and dancer posts on tribe. Most of them frame hip hop dance as highly sexual, as lacking moral boundaries and as degrading towards women. However, I've noticed that most of these people (ok, all of them :) are Caucasian. They seem to do it in order to say 'well, people might see bellydance's bedlah as sexual but at least we're not as sexual as all that booty-shaking in hip hop dance.' or to say 'why will parents send their kids to hip hop over bellydance considering how overtly sexual hip hop is.' One poster did call hip hop all that 'booty-shaking.' But, hello, the three-quarter shimmy is all about 'booty-shaking.' When I've pressed the people I know to name hip hop videos where they've seen overtly sexual dancing (or any at all) they usually come up blank and I have to point out that Eve, Usher, Queen Latifa, Lil Mama, Black-Eyed Peas, etc. all belong to the hip hop genre, and the videos they produce are far from derogatory. In fact, I always try to emphasize that hip hop dance is an art form, and just like bellydance it can be misappropriated. I'll also point out that the videos they hear about are from male hip hop artists whose videos only appear 'after hours' and are mainly created to titillate or for sensational purposes. However, it upsets me that dancers who speak out against society's denigrating construction of bellydance as overtly sexual, have to put down another dance form to make themselves seem 'normal' and 'better'. It also concerns me as it covertly reminds me of 19th century mindsets that frame the movements of certain cultures as salacious, rather than looking at who is using them. Has anyone else come across this?
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Re: Hip Hop vs. Bellydance?
Sun, June 24, 2007 - 9:55 PMI've taken hip hop class and it was fun! Hip hop itself isn't degrading to women, however the music industry is using it in that fashion. The music industry is at the root of the problem.
Eve, Usher, Queen Latifah, Lil Mama, Black-Eyed Peas are the exception not the norm. I'm sorry, but I have to agree that lots of hip hop songs and videos aired are indeed derogatory to women. I discourage my children from watching music videos when they are with their dad, and I know for a fact they don't watch them here because I don't have cable. (I encourage them to read instead...) I worked for a music producer for a short time and I can't begin to tell you the vulgarities I had to endure listening to his artists day after day...They had no respect for women, nor did they have respect for themselves. It was all done for the Benjamins.
Unfortunately, Orientale dance has filtered into the rap scene and some aren't happy because it lends to the notion that belly dancers are just a step above strippers. Whenever a video is brought to my attention, I'll pull it up to watch. Some complaints are over the top, however, some are legitimate. I'm quite put off when I see some young girls with their buttocks hanging out of short pants exposing way too much, shaking their rear in front of a camera. I'd be forced to lock my daughter in a closet if I'd ever find her on a music video shakin' it for all to see! And as to my son, he's been warned that when he's older he'd better treat women as if they are goddesses or he and I will have to talk....He doesn't want this, trust me. This is my attempt to neutralize the influences of visuals my children are being bombarded with on a daily basis.
These sexually charged videos are made with young men in mind; they are the consumers targeted by the music industry. The producers of these videos don't care about an ancient art form; they don't care about art! Matter of fact, they don't care about their artists!! The producers' goal is to turn a buck while taking no prisoners.
If you feel someone is being less than rational about hip hop, ask them to rent Rize. Rize is a FANTASTIC documentary all dancers should experience.
And no, I can't name any hip hop artists because I don't watch these videos; I avoid them like the plague. I have my 16 yr old daughter sitting here with me now who says 8 out of 10 hip hop video are too disgusting for her to watch. Lil Scrappy, Lil Boozie, Lil Webbie, Yung Joc, 50 Cent, Akon, Trick Daddy....(she called friends for assistance with this list, although I know she watches MTV on the sly...)
Having said all this, the degradation of women not only exists in rap videos but R&R (Kid Rock for example), and C&W. I am not familiar with C&W stars, but this video I speak of was as raunchy as any video I've ever seen!
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Re: Hip Hop vs. Bellydance?
Mon, June 25, 2007 - 6:15 AMI think the people who are involved in pushing the negative image of hip hop should actually take a Hip hop class to find out what it is. Hiphop is aggressive and "in your face." Its not for the weak or someone who wants to pretend that they're a prissy princess. Our society has had problems with women being aggressive, especially women of color.
To show or expose our sexuality is quite confusing for some. I've seen over the top belly dance and hip hop performances, but I've also seen both done well. Erasing sensuality or sexuality from either dance, I feel is a mistake and makes both dances cold.
I have done Hip hop dance longer than I have belly danced. When looking for music to dance to I look for hiphop through the local scene, friends, myspace and other internet sources. Just excepting what's put in front of you on mtv is the reason all the negative hiphop gets promoted. For every negative video on tv there is a positive artist out there struggling to be heard. -
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Re: Hip Hop vs. Bellydance?
Wed, July 25, 2007 - 7:47 AMThe stuff that we are seeing in videos these days is not hip-hop, but stripper culture. The dancing and even most of the dancers themselves come from the strip club. -
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Re: Hip Hop vs. Bellydance?
Wed, July 25, 2007 - 9:30 AM"...three-quarter shimmy is all about 'booty-shaking." Shouldn't be. The 3/4 shimmy is all in the hips. Just like the pelvic flutter that can appear like the stripper bumping, when done incorrectly it looks vulgar.
I'm with Ve about Hip Hop. And, like Nandi said, what the public is seeing these days is beind done by stripper culture. I threfore tend to lean against Hip Hop because of the imagry the general public has embraced that I want no part of. I have enough problems getting Caucasians to see and work with me as an equal without women proudly looking like whores. -
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Re: Hip Hop vs. Bellydance?
Wed, July 25, 2007 - 12:12 PMThere really needs to be a separation from rap video dancing and actual hip hop dancing. I can't write off or dismiss hip hop that easily being a person of color. I feel that hip hop and belly dancing gives our young dancers a way to express themselves. Yes, I'm a hip hop dancer and yes, I am a belly dancer.
But the whole notion of belly dancing being one step above stripping did not start, nor will it end, with hip hop.
youtube.com/watch
Watch this battle and picture these girls and guys in bedlah or tribal costuming:-) -
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Re: Hip Hop vs. Bellydance?
Wed, July 25, 2007 - 1:57 PMAh, here it is. My exposure to Hip Hop is only through what little Rap videos I see. Even the Hip Hop that the Rappers presented on Oprah as "okay" weren't okay to me.
I have no concept of connecting belly dance and Hip Hop, so maybe I'm not getting the whole point of the conversation and will bow out :O) :O) :O) I'll keep reading, though. Maybe I'll learn something. :O) -
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Re: Hip Hop vs. Bellydance?
Wed, July 25, 2007 - 2:03 PMOkay, I watched the video. Generation Gap thing in action here. This to me is what we used to do as Break Dancing. No wonder no one knew what I was talking about! :O)
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Re: Hip Hop vs. Bellydance?
Thu, July 26, 2007 - 5:49 AMLol, and before that it was called b-boying:-)
What's are the similiarities between the two. How many head slides, ribcage circles (verticle and horizontal), turkish drops and snake arms (lyrical and staccato) did you see in the video?
Masani, what concerned me was the statement "...I have enough problems getting Caucasians to see and work with me as an equal without women proudly looking like whores..." Is this because of hip hop or american society?
As dancers of color I don't think its fair that we have to defend hip hop, but I don't think that we should jump on the bandwagon and curse it either. It has not occured to me to go up to an Irish person and ask them about Riverdance and how can it be a valid dance. Its base is Irish step dancing but, it also has flamenco and american tap in the mix. btw, I love Riverdance. But I don't think all Irish people have to defend it or even like it.
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